Author Topic: General Gaming news thread  (Read 46188 times)

BigD

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #660 on: January 11, 2019, 10:22:28 pm »
IIRC the dude didn't say anything sexist but was pro gamer-gate.

I couldn't care less about the specifics tbh. I just care about the game. *shrug*
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ZoodtheDood

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #661 on: January 12, 2019, 08:29:40 am »
Same but it's weird to me nowadays that politics can make or break a game. I fucking hate it, just let the game stand on it's own merits you know? I want my videogames to go back to being a niche nerd hobby.

linkzero

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #662 on: January 12, 2019, 03:10:11 pm »
I guess it's because you'll also be financially supporting someone, or a team who may share a certain set of ideals. Do you want to be funding someone, giving them more power, and potentially a greater voice, if you don't agree with their fundamental values? Some would see it as committing a moral wrong.

The question of whether art should be separate from the artist, is a philosophical question that's existed for ages, across all forms of art, and before video games. Movies, TV, books, paintings etc.
In a way, it's a form of the question "does the end justify the means?".

Personally, from a philosophical point of view, I think that the means determine the end. I think it was Gandhi who put forth that you could bake a loaf of bread, buy it, or steal it. In each scenario, you end up with a loaf of bread. But how you obtained it affects whether it is a product of your own labour, a purchased good, or stolen property.

BigD

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #663 on: January 12, 2019, 03:56:15 pm »
wall o text

I literally don't give a shit lol. EA could kill babies tomorrow and I would still buy the next iteration of FIFA. As far as I'm concerned every single corporation (including video game companies and devs) are mad shady. Some are just less shady than others.
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Magewout

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #664 on: January 12, 2019, 04:58:58 pm »
I literally don't give a shit lol.

Thank god. Just imagine if you literally gave a shit :scared:
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ZoodtheDood

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #665 on: January 12, 2019, 05:26:58 pm »
I guess it's because you'll also be financially supporting someone, or a team who may share a certain set of ideals. Do you want to be funding someone, giving them more power, and potentially a greater voice, if you don't agree with their fundamental values? Some would see it as committing a moral wrong.

The question of whether art should be separate from the artist, is a philosophical question that's existed for ages, across all forms of art, and before video games. Movies, TV, books, paintings etc.
In a way, it's a form of the question "does the end justify the means?".

Personally, from a philosophical point of view, I think that the means determine the end. I think it was Gandhi who put forth that you could bake a loaf of bread, buy it, or steal it. In each scenario, you end up with a loaf of bread. But how you obtained it affects whether it is a product of your own labour, a purchased good, or stolen property.

I understand that some people would find it morally conflicting buying a video game that was created by a guy with separate views from them but in that scenario you can just go by the old platitude that the Battlefield 5 developers told the fans; "Don't like it, don't buy it" (the fans took his advice btw and he got fired) but when people go out of their way to get a game canceled because they don't agree with one of the past sentiments of one of the developers is going too far imo. Video games are an expansive medium from all walks of life. One political point of view can't and shouldn't dictate the entire market. The generation of people that made current video games so popular are growing up and thus demand a more sophisticated form of media but all games shouldn't fall under a political spectrum all the time. They don't thanks to the likes of Nintendo and some indie developers but a lot of developers political background radiation are seeping into their games. Have video games really evolved enough as an art form to be taken seriously by the general public to provide meaningful political commentary? One of my favorite video game franchises is the Metal Gear Solid series. It is heavily political and super anti-war but it has a goofy and convoluted premise. It is still FUN and that's why it works as a video game. Isn't that the point of the video game medium?
TL;DR Don't like it don't buy it and don't try to ruin other peoples fun because their sensibilities challenge your own.  :woo: I hate politics btw.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 05:29:29 pm by ZoodtheDood »

BigD

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #666 on: January 12, 2019, 05:31:02 pm »
I literally don't give a shit lol.

Thank god. Just imagine if you literally gave a shit :scared:

I know right? :noes:
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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #667 on: January 12, 2019, 05:34:49 pm »
I'm of the opinion that the art should be separated from the artist.


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linkzero

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #668 on: January 12, 2019, 11:50:38 pm »
I understand that some people would find it morally conflicting buying a video game that was created by a guy with separate views from them but in that scenario you can just go by the old platitude that the Battlefield 5 developers told the fans; "Don't like it, don't buy it" (the fans took his advice btw and he got fired) but when people go out of their way to get a game canceled because they don't agree with one of the past sentiments of one of the developers is going too far imo. Video games are an expansive medium from all walks of life. One political point of view can't and shouldn't dictate the entire market. The generation of people that made current video games so popular are growing up and thus demand a more sophisticated form of media but all games shouldn't fall under a political spectrum all the time. They don't thanks to the likes of Nintendo and some indie developers but a lot of developers political background radiation are seeping into their games. Have video games really evolved enough as an art form to be taken seriously by the general public to provide meaningful political commentary? One of my favorite video game franchises is the Metal Gear Solid series. It is heavily political and super anti-war but it has a goofy and convoluted premise. It is still FUN and that's why it works as a video game. Isn't that the point of the video game medium?
TL;DR Don't like it don't buy it and don't try to ruin other peoples fun because their sensibilities challenge your own.  :woo: I hate politics btw.


I don't think people went out of their way to get it cancelled. Even around the time of the controversy, the studio/publisher that was backing the developer made an entire post about how they supported him:
https://www.polygon.com/e3/2017/6/12/15780174/the-last-night-twitter-history-gamergate

I can't imagine that they were somehow pressured to drop out now.

"Don't like it, don't buy it" works to an extent. But there has to be a line drawn at some point, one would think. If there was a video game that was released with the sole intent of brainwashing / promoting the genocide of a particular group of people or something, at some point it's wrong to allow such a negative voice to go unchecked.

For instance, aren't there propaganda video games used to recruit terrorists against US armed forces? Is that okay to have such a video game published on Steam or something?
Is it okay to allow something that is a potential threat to people's freedoms to go unchecked, for the sake of free speech and discussion?

I'm of the opinion that the art should be separated from the artist.
While many artists would like their works taken in abstraction, ie. leave interpretation to the viewer, I think that to fully appreciate a work, one must take it in the context of the whole, including the artist's intent/inspiration when creating it.
I think you can appreciate something's aesthetic value, while considering its moral value.

Magewout

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #669 on: January 13, 2019, 07:40:38 am »
I understand that some people would find it morally conflicting buying a video game that was created by a guy with separate views from them but in that scenario you can just go by the old platitude that the Battlefield 5 developers told the fans; "Don't like it, don't buy it" (the fans took his advice btw and he got fired) but when people go out of their way to get a game canceled because they don't agree with one of the past sentiments of one of the developers is going too far imo. Video games are an expansive medium from all walks of life. One political point of view can't and shouldn't dictate the entire market. The generation of people that made current video games so popular are growing up and thus demand a more sophisticated form of media but all games shouldn't fall under a political spectrum all the time. They don't thanks to the likes of Nintendo and some indie developers but a lot of developers political background radiation are seeping into their games. Have video games really evolved enough as an art form to be taken seriously by the general public to provide meaningful political commentary? One of my favorite video game franchises is the Metal Gear Solid series. It is heavily political and super anti-war but it has a goofy and convoluted premise. It is still FUN and that's why it works as a video game. Isn't that the point of the video game medium?
TL;DR Don't like it don't buy it and don't try to ruin other peoples fun because their sensibilities challenge your own.  :woo: I hate politics btw.


I don't think people went out of their way to get it cancelled. Even around the time of the controversy, the studio/publisher that was backing the developer made an entire post about how they supported him:
https://www.polygon.com/e3/2017/6/12/15780174/the-last-night-twitter-history-gamergate

I can't imagine that they were somehow pressured to drop out now.

"Don't like it, don't buy it" works to an extent. But there has to be a line drawn at some point, one would think. If there was a video game that was released with the sole intent of brainwashing / promoting the genocide of a particular group of people or something, at some point it's wrong to allow such a negative voice to go unchecked.

For instance, aren't there propaganda video games used to recruit terrorists against US armed forces? Is that okay to have such a video game published on Steam or something?
Is it okay to allow something that is a potential threat to people's freedoms to go unchecked, for the sake of free speech and discussion?

I'm of the opinion that the art should be separated from the artist.
While many artists would like their works taken in abstraction, ie. leave interpretation to the viewer, I think that to fully appreciate a work, one must take it in the context of the whole, including the artist's intent/inspiration when creating it.
I think you can appreciate something's aesthetic value, while considering its moral value.

I'd say there is quite a big difference between 1) a game developed by someone whose politics you don't agree with, 2) a game containing elements that might be considered sexist/racist/hate speech/whatever, and 3) a game actively inciting violence.

In the case of 1) I'd say the art sould be separated from the artist. The people who want to include the artist's intent in their evaluation of a work, are free to do so but must acknowledge that their interpretation of the artist's intent could be wrong.
In the case of 2) I'd argue that the bar for sexism/racism/etc has been set pretty low by certain political groups. After all, who decides what is hate speech and what is not? Such a game should be protected under free speech laws.
In the case of 3) I'd think it would already be prohibited under current free speech laws.
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linkzero

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #670 on: January 13, 2019, 04:32:34 pm »
I'd say there is quite a big difference between 1) a game developed by someone whose politics you don't agree with, 2) a game containing elements that might be considered sexist/racist/hate speech/whatever, and 3) a game actively inciting violence.

In the case of 1) I'd say the art sould be separated from the artist. The people who want to include the artist's intent in their evaluation of a work, are free to do so but must acknowledge that their interpretation of the artist's intent could be wrong.
In the case of 2) I'd argue that the bar for sexism/racism/etc has been set pretty low by certain political groups. After all, who decides what is hate speech and what is not? Such a game should be protected under free speech laws.
In the case of 3) I'd think it would already be prohibited under current free speech laws.

I think that games are just starting to catch up to literature and film as a medium in this regard.

I agree with you for the most part. Where 1) is clearly okay, 3) is clearly not okay, and there is a shifting line somewhere in 2) where we must decide for ourselves, and society is always in flux on.

I know that it seems like certain groups are setting a low bar, but at the same time, I can see where they are coming from, because there is evidence to support how subversive sexism/racism that is pervasive in our culture can influence people, how we think about ourselves and how we treat others.
I think that it's so ingrained into our culture at this point that it's impossible to reverse. But that isn't a reason to give up and do nothing either.

madmaltese

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Re: General Gaming news thread
« Reply #671 on: January 13, 2019, 08:04:25 pm »
In Kingdom Come's case the 'controversy' worked in it's favour anyway because it gave it publicity it never would've gotten and nearly everyone that looked into it knew it was bs because the game had zero racial or bigoted themes and on top of that was a damn good RPG. Game sold extremely well.

All the rage around The Last Night is a little different because in this case it seems to be the content of the game but no one knows what the final game looks like. This is all based on one tweet that hints at a different take on dystopian future than certain ppl want to hear. Let the game be and then judge it when it's done.